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SBK Breaks Down His New Album and the Current Direction of Music (Interview)
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SBK is a rapper/producer who broke through in the grime scene during its revival in the mid-2010s. Making a name for himself alongside artists like Novelist, he built a fan base from there to where he is today. Having moved away from grime, he has delved into various genres such as D’n’B and is now making rap inspired by emo and punk music.
He recently released his album ‘Something Beyond Kindness‘ exclusively as a physical purchase or download. While now on streaming services, he wanted to see which fans valued his music and were willing to buy his LP. This tactic has been used similarly with his new release, ‘Something Beyond Kindness II‘, which is a sequel to that record. Both projects complement one another, with the former exploring his more depressed and emotional side, with the latter looking at him overcoming his depression and moving past that period.
Ahead of that release, we spoke to him last month while he was in Thailand finishing up the album. We explored what inspired these two records, his thoughts on how people value music now, and mental health.
‘MAGNUM‘ which is your latest single had a more optimistic and upbeat sound compared to your last LP. With your next album, is it going to be moving on from the pain and emotion of that record and talk about how you’ve developed since then as an artist and person?
Yeah man. I think artist and person are the same thing. If I wasn’t an artist, I wouldn’t be me as a person. My music is a direct reflection of my emotional state. The state I was in when I made that album (Something Beyond Kindness) was one of the darkest places I have been in my life. But, now, I have had enough of feeling like that, so the next album is going to be exactly what you just described. It was amazing because I was able to make that expression. I have spoken to so many people; I know it has helped so many people.
I know a lot of people who have mental health problems, but there is not that many people who have gone that far to the point where they can relate directly to what I am saying. With that album, it got through to the people who was supposed to hear it. But, this one is going to be a direct sequel to the last one. I posted on Instagram, that it’s the Yin to the other project’s Yang.
The last project was dark and very grungy and I do love that project to bits, but this new project is going to be full of uplifting songs. We’ve had enough of feeling this way; we’ve had enough of feeling depressed. It’s time to come out of the darkness into the light. I have got four or five songs so far which I have made whilst I have been travelling. I want people to listen to my music and be uplifted and feel happy.
But, to be fair, it depends who you are. That last album, although the vibe of it was very dark, some people would listen to that and it does make them happy because it makes them feel like their not alone. Whereas, with this one, it’s also for them people, but because the vibe is more positive, it’s easier to grasp for people who ain’t severally depressed.
I think that is going to be an interesting listen, to see how you’ve changed as a person between those records and how you’ve dealt with some of the issues you’ve talked about.
I wouldn’t say it’s taboo, but talking about mental health, in particular with men in the rap/hip-hop scene isn’t done as much as it should be. But, it is definitely changing. The fact that people are messaging you and saying how much it helped them shows there is a demand for it.
There is a demand for it. Obviously, in rap, it is hard to come by emotional music. But, I would rather say it’s not even a rap thing, it is a man thing.
I feel like (with) most men, it is difficult for them to talk about their emotions. I’ve always been an emotional man. I used to think I was weaker. I used to have identity problems being a male because I have always been an emotional kid. I’m an adult now, but I have always been emotional. Being around English/British lad culture, a lot of people just mask what they’re going through, whereas I have never been like that. Now that I have actually turned into an adult, I am seeing it as it is. Everyone feels this way, but most men ignore it or hide it and I am the one who is brave enough to say it out loud.
I feel a lot of the stuff I go through I am vocal about, whereas most won’t be because of this male culture. If you’re not emotional, you are less of a man, when ironically it’s the other way round. You’re more of a man if you are in tune with your emotions; you understand what you are going through is normal.
I went through those emotions on the last album, but I got it out of my system. Now, I have had enough of being depressed; feeling bad about myself. It’s time to shine and feel happy. This new album, which is called ‘Something Beyond Kindness II‘ is going to be the antithesis to the last one.
It is a general thing. If you look back through music history, there aren’t really too many people (talking about men’s mental health). Until the last ten years, there hasn’t been a lot of music where men have vocalised their mental health. But, it’s a sign that we are progressing in the right direction.
As you said, it is completely fine to be in touch with your emotions as a man. It is not, not manly to do that. Who cares really? Just be yourself.
Also, who decides what a man is? Who decides what is manly and what is not? It’s all just society. Societally, men have been programmed to think that we can’t show our emotions. But, it takes so much bravery to do that. In my opinion, that is more manly.
I will always be like this to my last day here. I’ll always wear my heart on my sleeve. If I am going through a rough patch, my music is going to get rougher. Some of the most beautiful music comes from pain and some comes from happiness. I’ve gone through the pain now; I have had enough of feeling pain. Now, I choose to be happy. I can’t wait to see what comes out of my happiness because I have seen what comes out of my pain and it’s pretty amazing.
As you said, it is a societal thing, but it does appear to be changing. I’m glad to see you in a better place. I can’t wait to see the happier side of you musically and I’m looking forward to that album when it’s released.
Right now I’m just making songs out here. When you’re a rapper, sometimes you have a bit of an alter-ego. My real name is Lanardo, but when I am in London everyone knows me as SBK. The only person that calls me Lanardo is my family and close friends.
Being out here in Thailand and South-East Asia, I’m being Lanardo for a bit. To be fair, I have just been jamming for a few days, but there are a couple days where I have to be SBK. I gotta go and make beats; record. I’m being Lanardo for a bit. In London, I feel like I am being SBK the whole time. You’ve got to give attention to both those egos.
It’s tiring; sometimes it is so easy to get lost in the SBK persona when really, I need to be Lanardo for a bit.
Do you ever feel the Lanardo side of you comes out in your music or you can see yourself making an album under the name ‘Lanardo’?
I have thought about naming an album Lanardo. My name is quite rare and it’s probably a good name for an album.
I don’t know if I would do the whole alter-ego thing because it is hard to differentiate. When I have been making music for over a decade, it’s hard to differentiate what is SBK and what is Lanardo. But, all of the stuff I am talking about is all me, it is just different monikers. In London, everyone calls me SB because that is the name I have been rolling with. But, if you truly know me as my friend; my brother; (my) sister; as my mum; they’ll always call me Lanardo.
I have always felt my music is very personal regardless. But, it is a good concept for an album.
Your music is quite personal and it definitely would be an interesting concept for an album.
When I think of the name Lanardo, I am thinking of my childhood and stuff, where my ego is telling me there is not a lot of glory within that name. I’ve made money as SBK and brought my mom a car as Lanardo. (laughs) When I think of the name Lanardo, I think of my childhood and my family. When I think of the name SBK, it’s all my glory years; where I have made all my money and been able to become a star within my own right. But, they are kind of the same thing, as I’ve made money as SBK, but as Lanardo I have spoilt my family.
The reason I say there’s an alter-ego is sometimes I am so focused on being SBK and trying to make my rent in London, I neglect being a normal human. I’m this superhero version of me for a bit, but sometimes I need to go back to my hometown and meet my mom and that.
I found out about you when you were making grime and were on Lord of the Mics. What was the experience or moment when you decided you wanted to be an artist?
I feel like I have always been an artist. Originally, I wanted to be a comic book artist, but my dad was a musician. I’m half Jamaican, half English and my dad is Jamaican. He was a quite big Reggae artist; he has songs with Vybz Kartel. When I was younger, he always pushed me to do music, but when I was a kid, I didn’t want to do it. Eventually, when I was 13, he gave me a laptop and the tools to start making music.
I started producing when I was 13 and a year later I started MCing because I heard Skepta ‘Shutdown‘. I’m really young; I am only 22, so Skepta ‘Shutdown‘ was a very big moment in U.K. music. When I heard those songs, that was the moment I was like, ‘Oh. I don’t have to rap like Eminem. I can rap and be a British person.’.
The town that I grew up in, I was one of the only Black people in my whole town. So, I didn’t have this London culture; I didn’t grow up with Black people MCing around me in an English accent. When I was younger and started to rap, I wanted to rap like Eminem. But, I heard grime and JME; Skepta; Wiley; etc. I just fell in love with it.
From the age of 14, I linked up with Novelist and I started making grime beats and learnt how to MC in that way. The moment I decided I was an artist was when I fell in love with that because it is something (that) directly translates to me. Hearing a British person rap and speaking how we speak, even though they were doing that for 15 years before ‘Shutdown‘. (But), hearing ‘Shutdown‘ was the point where I realised it was happening.
To be fair, from young, I used to see Wiley music videos on TV. There was UK rap around in my life, but I never really clocked onto it.
This year is ten years since grime had its big comeback with ‘German Whip‘ and ‘That’s Not Me‘. I feel that set the pathway to where we are now with the U.K. rap scene. You can see how it encouraged people and I fondly remember that time. There was grime before, it started in the early 2000s, but those songs set in place for the years to come with trap music and drill. Obviously, we have got the alternative-rap stuff now.
I feel like that kicked off a lot. In general, music was a lot healthier back then.
What makes you think that?
Music and art is such a subjective thing. But, my style of music and what pleases my ear has changed a lot. Now, rap and music in general is more vapid than ever. That time where ‘Shutdown‘, ‘That’s Not Me‘, and ‘German Whip‘ (came out) was a time for many artists who worked for years and years before that. Everyone was having their moment after 10 years of work. Whereas, now, we’re in a completely different place.
We’re in a place where they are talking about AI replacing us; we’re listening to TikToks and it’s about 14 seconds long and that is your reference for a song. The whole idea of music has changed, and it means less now, even monetarily. There was streaming back then, but it’s even worse now. Everything is intangible. Artists are getting paid less and less, music means less and less. To be fair, this is what it was like 20 years ago, (but) if you listen to the subject matter of what these rappers are talking about, it’s like, ‘This is not helping anyone.’.
My music is the opposite of that. I don’t know if it is just my ego, but I think it is the opposite of what the system is pushing right now. The system is pushing classic rap tropes of having loads of money; loads of girls. But, really, what is this doing for our culture as Black people and people in general? It’s glorifying things that don’t benefit anyone and make people think worse about their own life. But, this is my mentality.
I do feel the music that is being pushed in the mainstream is a lot more palatable, it has a lot less substance. But, I do think there are those alternatives like Dave and Little Simz. In America, you’ve got people like Kendrick or Black Thought.
I agree with what you are saying and TikTok has had an impact in the fact that people will hear something for 10 seconds and go, ‘Oh yeah, I’m gonna listen to that.’. I do still feel there is substantive music, but there is less value for music. The guy who runs Spotify (Daniel Ek) said the other day that artists don’t need any money to make content. That really summed up how little music is valued.
Valued by who?
That is from the point of view of a very rich man who makes a lot of money off artists’ emotions. He sees it as content because it makes him money, he doesn’t care what the music says. I think music is still valued and as you mentioned earlier, there are people who messaged you saying how much your music has helped them. But, in this society, we live in, artists do need to make money to survive and to continue making the music they want to. Streaming has massively affected how much artists make and there does seem like a lack of desire to pay for music. It’s a difficult one.
Why would anyone go back to paying for music, when you can listen to a hundred million songs for free? I sold my last album for two months, without putting it on streaming platforms. I really learnt how many fans I have. People that are willing to pay for it, they will just pay for it.
I think most people wouldn’t buy an album in this day and age anyway, but it was interesting to see (who bought the album). A couple people who have never bought an album in their life bought my album, just so they could listen to it. I had a conversation with them, and they said, “Yo because I paid for this, it means more to me.”.
One of the biggest, most talented artists could drop an album on streaming platforms for free, but how much does it mean if you can listen to a dead song for free or listen to Michael Jackson for free? The fact that you have paid for it, all of a sudden there is a value on it. With streaming platforms, we’re just all crabs in a bucket now. There are 60,000 songs added to streaming every day, not all of them are going to sound as good as each other. They’ve chucked us all in the bucket. The value of music is all the same, but it’s not.
Even being on holiday here, if I pay for a pair of sliders, even if they are not the nicest sliders, I want to keep them because I have spent my money on them. People value money when they don’t value music. What you said is right. There is people who value music, but people who are more inclined to buy music are people who make it themselves, work in the industry, or some form of creative industry. They are more likely to than the average consumer because they can listen to it for free.
I have to sometimes take myself out of my own headspace, as I’m someone who will buy vinyl. I’ll buy the first week if it’s an artist I really want to listen to. But, I have to take myself out of that headspace.
I remember a couple of years ago when ‘Donda‘ had just come out, and I heard these people having a conversation and someone was saying, “You’re listening to a whole album? That’s boring.”. That took me aback. PinkPantheress said recently, “A song doesn’t need to be longer than two minutes [and] thirty [seconds], in my opinion.”.
There is a large portion of people now who just want to hear something instantaneously, and that is it. They don’t want to sit down and take it in and see what it all means.
I dunno. I feel like for life I am gonna be anti-that. (laughs) This is a mad ting right now. We’re changing what music really is; music has just become a moment now. It’s like, “Do you know that song? Nah.”. They might know thirty seconds of it; the first verse and maybe the hook. Then when you go to do the second verse, no one knows the lyrics.
For PinkPantheress, all of her songs have been around one minute anyway, so it doesn’t really matter. That’s kind of her style, she is literally a TikTok artist. I’m not dissing her or anything, big up her. But, I am going to be anti that because It is cheaper than music to me. They (songs) don’t have to be (more than two minutes), but also she is signed by a record label who is telling her they don’t have to be.
The record label is probably saying, ‘Just crank out a few one-minute songs that are a bit catchy, so we can make more money on TikTok.’. Whereas, even if I got in the studio with PinkPantheress, I could make a song that is five minutes long, and it would be wicked.
This culture of listening to music for a short amount of time (is) what is going to catch someone’s ear; what is going to catch someone’s attention? Music has become more about that than the actual music now. It’s so mad. I love talking about this because it is so interesting.
It feels a bit like fast food.
That is the perfect way to describe it. McDonalds probably sell more burgers than any other burger shop in the world, but it don’t mean it’s the best burger.
To use an example, ‘MILLION DOLLAR BABY‘; I do have it on my Spotify. But, I listen to it and I think, ‘I’m not going to be listening to this in a year.’
Who’s that?
It is by Tommy Richman. It did well on TikTok and it’s now in the top 5. I have it on and it sounds good, and would sound good in a club but there is nothing to keep me here.
It’s just fast food. I said this in the last label meeting I was in; I said, “Look man. All these labels are looking for fast food that they can sell. But me, I am taking time to prepare my meal.”. (laughs) I compare myself to Kanye a lot because he drops albums and he doesn’t give a f**k about what the eco-system is saying. He drops actual projects and they are kinda like eras.
To be fair, my music is still alternative, but I have gone through my alternative/emo era. Now, I am about to go into a better place. Maybe something else will happen to me in my life and (the) next album is going to be based on how I feel then. That is the type of artist I want to be. I’m gonna take time to prepare my meal and it is going to be Michelin star and it’s going to be memorable.
You think of all the best restaurants you’ve ever been to, you can still remember them, but when was the last time you went to McDonalds and can you remember it? I dunno.
I get what you mean by the value of music. What I found as a music journalist is it’s extremely difficult to find people who want to pay you. Again, it leads back to the idea of not valuing something. Sometimes I see somebody on Twitter saying, “I don’t need music journalism. I can just say this album is s**t online.”. But, that isn’t what music journalism is.
There are reviews, that is a part of it, but there is other stuff to it, as well. Similarly to music, people don’t value that anymore and they just want to read something quickly for five minutes or they’ll see the score and say, “I disagree with this. It says (this album) is a 3/5 and I think it’s a 4/5.”.
Even with that, it is not just music. This fast-food culture we are talking about is with all forms of art. I would argue Journalism is a form of art. Most of the people that look at reviews and Journalism, particularly in music, it’s not the average consumer anymore. It’s more people that are in the scene or people that are creative themselves.
It’s unfortunate because I know so many talented journalists and publicists. I know these companies take so long to pay you, so I understand. It’s similar as a musician. I’m basically freelance as a musician; I never know when my next paycheck is going to come.
I feel sometimes everyone just follows trends; what is popping right now, let’s go support that. It doesn’t matter if we actually f**k with it. That is how I feel it is with the record labels; with these publications. If I started doing bare numbers tomorrow, all of a sudden every publication wants to talk to me. But, I have important things to say now! (laughs)
When you do break through that door, I would say to you personally you have got to keep being persistent and buss through every barrier that comes your way. Eventually, you’ll meet the right opportunity that will just land at your door and then you’ll be fine.
Do you reckon there is any way to change the current landscape and get the average consumer to value music again?
You have just got to be a pioneer. This is why Kanye is one of my greatest influences, you have to have this delusional view that I don’t care if the masses aren’t f*****g with this sound right now. When Kanye first came through, it was all gangsta rap and Jay-Z, and he came through with something different. He came through with a different mentality and he was making completely different types of music.
Everyone was telling him he was crazy. No one around thought it was going to work. But, if I have got the mentality to make amazing music, why would somebody not fork money out of their bank account to buy this? The only reason they wouldn’t is because you don’t believe that they would.
You could apply it to even Journalism. Why wouldn’t someone want to read this article or this interview if it’s really interesting? Most of life is a mentality thing. Just because this is happening in the grand scheme of things now, doesn’t mean that I can’t do it.
To change the current way, the average consumer has to value music and Music Journalism. It’s just about changing that mentality. I just wonder how you do it. For example, you can do what you did and say, ‘You have to buy my album for the time being. You can’t stream it, you have to buy it.’. But, then everyone has to do that, otherwise people go, ‘Oh well. This person’s not doing that so I can just stream that’.
Then, they are clearly not valuing the art and that is what this is really about. Even if you go through the effort of pirating the album, I feel you’re putting in more effort than someone that is streaming. I used to pirate albums when I was younger; I ripped all these sets. If you go through that effort, you love the music. Whereas, if you go on Spotify, you can listen to that as a passive listener and not give a f**k for five minutes.
I don’t give a f**k if everyone’s listening. Obviously, I want to be one of the greatest artists of all time, so eventually, everyone will listen anyway. I don’t care how long it is going to take, I can do this album after album. When I became a fan of Novelist and when you are really a fan of someone, you go and look back at everything they have ever done; same thing with Skepta. (Also), all of their albums; their freestyles. I must have seen every freestyle Novelist and Skepta has ever done on the internet. When you become a real fan, people look back.
Even if I drop an album that is incredibly impressive, it might not have been playlisted, but people will look back and be like, ‘This guy was doing a mad ting.’.
There are so many things that we use to value how well we are doing. Mostly, it’s numbers on social media, YouTube, or Spotify; whatever it may be. But, I am looking at this from such a positively delusional place. This might look mad right now; it might not fulfill my ego as the artist I am right now, but in the future, I am going to look back on this, and it is going to be appreciated. Maybe, it just isn’t supposed to be appreciated now.
This is the type of mentality shift we can look at or work with. Even with the last album, I said f**k all the streaming platforms, so I’m not surprised that it didn’t do that well on streaming. But, I know people are going to look back on that album and be like, ‘Wow’, because it’s so special. I have never even heard an album like that. There is people messaging me saying this is one of the most unique U.K. rap albums to exist.
The mood of the album is dark, but there is a space for that. There is a reason why there are shops where you can go buy loads of emo jewellery and incense. It might not be for everyone, but there is a space for it. There’s a reason why there is a Selfridges, a Topshop. Different strokes for different folks. (laughs)
As you said, there is always spaces for everything, no matter how big they are. What you’re doing someone else will listen to that and they’ll want to make something like that. Sometimes, unfortunately, your art isn’t appreciated till later down the line. Look at Vincent Van Gogh for example. Nobody cared about his art when he was alive and now he is one of the most famous artists to ever live.
There are so many examples. I’m only 22 years old. Kanye West who is one of the greatest musicians of all time wasn’t signed till he was 26. Skepta didn’t get his big moment till he was 32. There are so many examples of amazing, talented people that didn’t get the time until it was the right time.
For me, I’m 22. I am living in London, my rent is expensive, and I have a family to feed. So, I would love for it to be my time now. But spiritually, maybe it is just not my time yet, but I don’t know when it’s gonna be. I just have to stay doing what I’m supposed to be doing. That is making albums, making amazing music, and not caring about other people’s input. The thing that makes my music so sick is the fact that it is not like anyone else. You can tell it’s just fully me.
If you knew me personally, I feel like you would love my music more and understand it more. It’s so personal, so direct, and based on the experiences I am going through directly. Now, I feel I am going to broaden my horizons with this next album and make it something that I can play in a party; play when I am having a picnic; play in Hampstead Heath; play in Hyde Park in Leeds.
How has being in Thailand affected the direction of the new record?
I feel like I am so inspired because it is easier to be inspired when it is sunnier outside. (laughs) When you’re in the U.K. it’s like there is a grey filter on everything. It’s rare that we have good weather.
Also, just being realistic, in London and England in general there is such a drinking culture for me. (To be fair, I have been drinking a bit while on holiday.) Half the time, I am just drunk or hungover. When you’re doing that, it is easier to feel sad. Here, I am seeing the most beautiful nature I’ve ever seen; I’m seeing colours.
I am meeting people that are so humble and so smiley. I spoke to a South Korean chick the other day and she said to me the other day, “I didn’t think you were a nice person because you don’t smile a lot.”. But, it’s like, ‘Oh. Why don’t I smile more?’. In Thailand, every Thai person is smiling.
It’s made me have a few epiphanies where I want to be a more smiley person. It’s given me more of a perspective on life; it’s so mad. I’ve been to New York many times, but I came into the money I needed to go on holiday and I was either going to go to New York or Thailand. This was obviously the better choice. New York is just London x10, it would have been more of the same.
Coming here, I’ve been snorkeling; I have been seeing so many animals. It’s eye-opening and it has given me a level of happiness that is going to transfer to the music. It has just made me really humble to be fair. You think you have problems, but (it’s different) for people here. I spoke to a Thai woman, she said her whole salary for a month is like 200 quid. I’m thinking, ‘Yeah. I ain’t got it too bad.’.
It’s good to embrace different cultures and different places that you wouldn’t normally go to. It gives you a different experience of life. The U.K. is going through a tough time at the moment and it makes us a bit miserable. But, you go to a different place and you understand that everyone is going through struggles.
In the U.K., people are more complacent and so used to privilege. Even sitting down, doing f**k all, and smoking w**d all day; that is a privilege. These people out here are working hard, even if they aren’t making a lot of money.
It does give you a perspective. Especially me, I am more blessed than the average British person because I can do what I love for a living. I’m very lucky and those are the vibrations I am dealing with right now. I’m dealing with gratefulness; being lucky. Even being out here, I’m able to make money as I have my studio gear with me. I have not got nothing to complain about. In London, it’s easy to have a few things to complain about, whereas here I’m just blessed that I do not.
It has affected the music itself because it is easier to make happy music because I am happy.
There is a lot of versatility in your art. Is there a genre you have not tackled yet that you can see yourself making in the future?
Me being me, there is so much music that I have made that hasn’t ever been released. I don’t think there is any genre of music that I haven’t made; I’ve even made haven’t made Reggae music. But I do believe in the future I can see myself making house; I can start a Reggae band when I am 60 and too old to be a rapper. Honestly, I’ve made everything except country and metal, and even those things I could do.
So, the levels of versatility are quite crazy because I am a master copycat. As a producer, I feel I can take in a vibe and imitate it quite easily. I’m around a lot of very talented producers that I am learning from. I’ve got so much experience, I feel like I can make any type of music and I don’t feel there is any type of music that I can’t make.
What do you think has inspired your versatility?
I feel like I am a free spirit, but also my dad was very versatile. My dad used to make pop songs, but then he’s got songs with Vybz Kartel where he is rapping like a bad man. I’m like the mini version of my dad, but I am even more open than my dad; I can do even more genres.
I feel it’s just the openness and the loving feeling of all these different types of music; I love all these musics. I’ve got a playlist on Spotify and it’s called ‘sbk: The Selection‘. Basically, it has got about 400-500 songs on there and it is so varied. It (has) rap, grime; all the music that I love bundled into one. If you go through it, you will see how random it is. (There’ll) be an ABBA tune, then a Skepta tune, and then a rock tune, and then an amapaino tune. I just love music so much that I am that versatile. If I love it, I can easily do it.
Also, as a producer, I can understand jump patterns and melodies. I don’t know, I just feel like I am a free spirit. You’ll never know what my next album is going to be and how I feel because I am an impulsive person.
Having versatility allows you to make the music you want and it doesn’t put you into a box creatively. It means that people will be more open, to whatever you release. If somebody releases something for a period of time that sounds the same, if they try to do something different, people will go, ‘This is odd. I wasn’t expecting this.’.
People have still tried to put me into a box when it comes to grime. Most of the small level of fame I’ve got now comes from grime and doing D’n’B and garage. People are still trying to box me within that genre, but I’m too talented and love different types of music too much.
I was an artist when I made grime. If you listen to my grime songs, they all got hooks on them, it is not just bars and stuff. I was an artist when I made grime and D’n’B. So, I can do anything I want to do.
For example, I have fans who are just a fan of my grime music. But, to me, (I don’t know if this sounds egotistical) you’re not a fan of me; you are a fan of that song or that freestyle or that grime album. If you are really a fan of me; the personality; the artist; you are going to connect with anything I do. It’s still something I am figuring out, but if you connect with me personally as an artist, you will understand anything I do, even if it might not be your cup of tea musically. If I make a rock tune and a grime person doesn’t like it, fair enough, but maybe you were just a fan of them freestyles and not me. Me is all these things.
There are people who like the artist and their message, whatever the sound, and people who like a certain sound or song, and that’s what they want to hear. If they don’t, they won’t want that and they’ll move on to someone else who makes that.
People are fans of moments, which I am completely grateful for, but my whole life isn’t a moment. I’m a human being and I change and grow. Every album and every song that I make is the culmination of how I feel then. Even this album that I am working on now, the next album is going to be different because I’m so young and changing from year to year. I don’t even know what the next album is going to be, it could be house, amapiano, garage; you just don’t know.
I feel that I am such an impulsive person. People ask me what my favourite thing is all the time; I don’t even have favourites, I just love everything. But, maybe one day I will like this thing, and the next day I like a different thing. When I made ‘Something Beyond Kindness‘, at the time I was listening to so much rock music, emo s**t, punk s**t, so that’s what my music is going to be.
Now, I am listening to so much more upbeat music. It still has that alternative edge to it, but I wanna make music that gets people out of bed and be happy to be alive.
As I have said before, I think it is good that you have that versatility about you and that you want to make the music that feels right to you. That’s the difference between an artist and someone who makes music. An artist is putting their words and thoughts and beats on a canvas. Whereas, somebody who is making music is like, ‘What sounds good? This does, ok.’.
A lot of people follow trends, but it might take me longer because I am a pioneer. I feel that I’m going to be the person setting trends. One person comes through with a sick sound and everyone jumps on it and follows. I might have to do the thing that is not the most popular for a bit, and then, eventually, when it busses through, you can imitate it, but you can’t imitate it because it’s too authentic. It’s too authentic to me, it is too personal to me.
I feel that is the artist I am going to be. My ego isn’t happy with it because I want to be a massive artist now, but, in the grand scheme of things, I’m going to be better off.
At the end of the day, when it comes to breaking through into the mainstream, it’s very much luck-based now. Something just goes viral and then you get in the charts. Before, you had to be signed to a record label; you had to fit what they wanna do. You still have to, to an extent, but with a lot of music that goes viral now, there is an element of luck to it.
I understand what you’re saying. My mentality is based off the laws of attraction, so I feel like the language we use is very important. I understand and respect it, but even you saying you have to sign with a record label or deal with them. To be fair, most distribution is part of the record label, so you have to deal with the record labels, to get a big hit and get that push.
You say it is luck, but I swear to God bro, the stuff that I’ve seen and the things I have made possible in my life, I believe that hard work can equate to luck. I do believe that I’m a lucky person already because I was one of the only Black people in my whole school, playing grime sets off a Bluetooth speaker. Everyone in school was laughing at me, but I go back to the Wetherspoons now in my hometown, and everyone says he did it. You’ve met Skepta, you’ve met Wiley, you’ve got a song with JME.
There is a level of luck to it, but also persistence and hard work, and I have proven that in my previous life already, in terms of grime. If I can do that, surely I can apply it to anything else in my life. I do believe there is an element of luck, but I also believe the way that you think and attract things into your life, you create your own luck.
That is the correct answer. There is luck, but there’s also hard work.
To be fair, some people ain’t worked that hard, and they just get lucky. There is people who don’t work hard as some people who do work hard and they just get lucky. Maybe, that was just the way it was supposed to be.
I feel that with those people who don’t put in as much hard work, is that fame going to last as long as if they put in the effort? Are they going to maybe have a hit song or a hit album, and that is it? Is it going to be 15 minutes or a few years?
I feel that it can be a few years for people who don’t put in that much (effort), but people can change. Some people, if they blew up off some random hit and they weren’t serious, can change into a serious artist. They can change into someone who is talented and puts in loads of work, so big up to those people.
But, for someone who grinds their f*****g arse off for about a decade, it might feel a bit different for them when they have that moment. For me, I don’t know, I don’t wanna put any timing on it or say when it is going to happen. I do know that when it does happen, I’m going to have the time of my life because I have put so much f*****g work in. If you’re someone who doesn’t love music as much as me, maybe it just won’t mean as much. Maybe, you’ll have all this money and these experiences, but it won’t feel as good to you. Whereas, to me, I know for a fact when I do have all that stuff, it is going to feel f*****g brilliant.
It’s really hard, but this life is so subjective. Everyone is so different, so how do we know what things really mean to each other?
I imagine some people are good singers or producers and they don’t have the same love, but they’re just good at it. If you have that love, you are just going to appreciate it more. As you said, everyone’s emotions, thoughts, and feelings are going to be different.
A good comparison is people that grew up with money and people that didn’t. If you grew up with money, and you’ve had everything paid for you for your whole life, that’s just what is normal to them. (To be fair, I have met some people who grew up with money and they are pretty down-to-earth and grateful.) Whereas, if you have grown up with no money and then you are in situations where you are a grown-up with money, you are so grateful. It means more to you.
If you have been going to 5-star hotels your whole life, it won’t be a mad ting. But, if you didn’t and you go to a 5-star hotel, (it is different). I remember the first time I went to a 5-star hotel, I came in with a tracksuit; everyone was wearing suits. I went to the Savoy in London and oh my god, I was like, ‘What? How have I even ended up here?’. But to some people that is just the norm.
I have quite a big family, I’ve got loads of siblings; I can’t wait to bring my family into that life. I’ve supported my family with the money I have made off music. I brought my little brother to a few of my gigs; I can’t wait to show them more of the life I live. The life I live is very different to them.
Who is an up-and-coming artist we need to know about?
I know so many up-and-coming artists because I am in the up-and-coming artist scene. I will point out a girl called Ledbyher and she’s from Norfolk. Me and her have a song. The reason I like her style of music is it is unique and I feel my music is unique, as well. If you can listen to them and it doesn’t sound like anyone else, that is a real artist.
I feel like this girl is very special. We have a song called ‘HALF‘; I’m actually waiting for her to send vocals for my album. I’ve been following her for years and she is so talented. She’s like me, as I didn’t grow up in London, I grew up in Stevenage. She grew up in Norfolk and we both moved to London just to chase the dream. This is how dedicated we are to the art.
Is there any advice you would give her?
To be fair, I’m a bit further on in my journey than her, but I would just tell her the same stuff people told me. You’ve just got to keep going. Everyone I have met on this journey has told me the same thing. There are so many times where I have felt like, ‘Ah, mate. This is the end of the world. I have been doing this for 10 years,’. When those thoughts start creeping in; when you get those rejection emails from the record label, (To be fair, you don’t get no rejection, they just f*****g ignore you.) f**k all that man.
When you came into this, you had none of that. Go back to originally what you started doing music for and it is because you love it. Don’t base it on external things like opportunities, just do it because you love it. Even with my last album, that is what it was; it was an act of rebellion. I was just about to get signed by Sony Music. We went through a months-long process and then at the last minute they turned around and said, ‘Nah. We ain’t gonna have you because you haven’t got good enough numbers.’. I just went mad and was like, ‘I’m just gonna drop my album, myself.’.
Basically, if companies and people let you down, just f**k them. Go back to originally what you make music for.
The best of music is going to come from your passion and your persistence to put your stuff out there. As you said, it is disheartening when you get rejected or occasionally when I get an email saying, ‘We’ve got no room to fit in what you’re doing this month.’. You’ve got to keep persisting.
It’s even hard for magazines right now because they know not many people are reading a magazine. They’ve got to a point where the landscape of things has changed so much that they just need to do s**t that is popping. For example, this interview is with me, an up-and-coming artist. I wouldn’t say I am directly popping right now. But, if my name was ringing loads of bells and I had loads of views, then they would be more inclined to feature it.
Most of the press features that I have got have been from bumping into someone and knowing someone. In our scene, it is about who you know sometimes.
That numbers thing is true here. Sometimes we’ll ask to interview somebody and they’ll ask how many views does your site get. You tell them and you never hear from them again. I get it because you want to put your artist on to the most people.
The reason that this site exists is up-and-coming artists need a platform to push themselves forward. Music Journalism still has an important part to play in that.
I do interviews for the love of it, but also because I want to get inside an artist’s head and see why they make the music they do. It’s a numbers game but also come back to why you wanted to do it in the first place.
Again, it is the vapidness. You look at the top five songs on TikTok, and how many of them would you listen to in five years’ time? You look at some of these interviews on the bigger platforms and where’s the sauce? (laughs) This person is popping right now, let’s get them for an interview.
Whereas, this conversation we had, is just a human-to-human conversation; it has substance to it. I know you’re going to look back on this and see so many points that I made, and it is way more interesting than these top-profile interviews. A lot of them are orchestrated and there is a narrative, and it may have been paid for. Let us see the value that is within this conversation we’ve had because there is plenty to draw from.
SBK is on Instagram, X, and TikTok. Read more interviews here and you can buy ‘Something Beyond Kindness II‘ here.
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